Rachel Elnar & Erik Cargill of the Cheers & Tiers podcast stop by to talk about their show that is based partly around the heydays of the AIGA Leadership retreats. I was fortunate enough to get to be at six of these conferences, ending with the one in Omaha, Nebraska. I still miss this event and the immediate connections you had with the other 250~ people there. We also talk about design leadership, the need for design community, and human pyramids.

Enjoy.

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